Question
Aktualisiert am
26 Jan 2023
- Deutsch
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Finnisch
Frage über Finnisch
I just came across an interesting question from the field of interpersonal relationships.
'Kerrotteko kollegoille, että naitte nuoria tyttöjä ja sitten tapatte heidät?'
From the context of the movie, I am absolutely sure that naitte here means 'to fuck'. Now I remember that the word ending of the object plays a role in this word.
Is it really the case that tyttöjä here indicates that sex is meant and if the word here has a genitv ending, i.e. tytön with the 'n', that marriage is meant?
And if so, what actually happens if the object is indeterminate or non-existent?
I just came across an interesting question from the field of interpersonal relationships.
'Kerrotteko kollegoille, että naitte nuoria tyttöjä ja sitten tapatte heidät?'
From the context of the movie, I am absolutely sure that naitte here means 'to fuck'. Now I remember that the word ending of the object plays a role in this word.
Is it really the case that tyttöjä here indicates that sex is meant and if the word here has a genitv ending, i.e. tytön with the 'n', that marriage is meant?
And if so, what actually happens if the object is indeterminate or non-existent?
'Kerrotteko kollegoille, että naitte nuoria tyttöjä ja sitten tapatte heidät?'
From the context of the movie, I am absolutely sure that naitte here means 'to fuck'. Now I remember that the word ending of the object plays a role in this word.
Is it really the case that tyttöjä here indicates that sex is meant and if the word here has a genitv ending, i.e. tytön with the 'n', that marriage is meant?
And if so, what actually happens if the object is indeterminate or non-existent?
Antworten
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- Englisch (UK)
- Finnisch
Yes, "naitte tytön" = you marry the girl; "naitte tyttöä" = you f..k the girl.
"Naitte tyttöjä" could technically mean either, but usually the context makes it clear.
"Naida" (as the basic form of the verb goes) is a very loaded word and if you use it to mean "to marry", you want to make it very clear. Otherwise people will understand it to have the other meaning and it will not be appropriate in a civilized conversation.
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- Finnisch
If plural tyttöjä it means here sex (to fuck) and if singular tytön so not knowing the plot of the film it can mean both, to marry or to fuck.
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- Deutsch
@mozzyrelly
kiitos, I have already followed a similar matter in an Yle article. It was about the meaning of the word 'panna', how it has changed and whether it is good to use or not. In the meaning put, set, place it is actually a very common word in the language. At least more often than marry.
kiitos, I have already followed a similar matter in an Yle article. It was about the meaning of the word 'panna', how it has changed and whether it is good to use or not. In the meaning put, set, place it is actually a very common word in the language. At least more often than marry.
- Deutsch
- Englisch (UK)
- Finnisch
@ElGrande8 Maybe you know it already, but for "to marry" people will most of the time say "mennä naimisiin" (= to go and marry each other)... which is strange because "naimiset" (basic form) is hardly ever used in that plural form otherwise. "Naiminen" (the same word in singular) very clearly means the act of copulation. "Naiminen" is a noun derived from the verb "naida".
Here's how people will hear it:
Nain ensi kesänä.
- What!?
Nain tyttoystäväni ensi kesänä.
- Please phrase that differently...
Menen naimisiin tyttöystäväni kanssa ensi kesänä.
- Congratulations!
The use of phrases like "mennä naimisiin" is based on convention and custom. The way you'd in English (and German) say someone is "born," literally meaning they were "carried." You don't think of the literal meaning.
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- Deutsch
:) Now you even taught me something new about the German language. I wasn't aware that there are many etymological origins of the word to give birth (gebären), e.g. such as 'gabaíran' which actually means 'carry to the end' or 'bära' 'to carry, to bring, to endure, which have carrying as a root.
In German there is still the common expression 'ein Kind austragen' . But that means the whole time before birth. And that is only logical since the mother is always carrying the child back and forth.
When it came to the act 'born' and 'giving birth', I would have thought more about the actual birth process and didn't suspect that carrying a root of these words.
In German there is still the common expression 'ein Kind austragen' . But that means the whole time before birth. And that is only logical since the mother is always carrying the child back and forth.
When it came to the act 'born' and 'giving birth', I would have thought more about the actual birth process and didn't suspect that carrying a root of these words.
- Englisch (UK)
- Finnisch
@ElGrande8 Well, what I know is that words like that, that have been around for a while and stayed relevant, often reveal the ties between related languages.
In Finnish, when a person is born, it's something they seemingly do themselves (hän syntyy). The sense is that they multiply or proliferate. I always thought birth (the noun is "syntymä") had something to do with sin (synti) but apparently "syntymä" and the related verb are of a more ancient origin. It would make sense that human birth is an older concept in communication than sin, even if sin comes first in the Bible. I think the connection is there in people's minds and the similarity of the words was probably exploited by preachers in Finland back in the day.
Because in the Finnish verb "syntyä" the one being born is the one doing the action, Finnish-speaking people sometimes have trouble grasping the English verb where being born is something done to the person. I think of the Finnish rock band Kingston Wall who had a song ("When Something Old Dies") where they sing
Something new borns when something old dies
The singer/lyricist was made aware of the incorrect use of the English verb whereby he said something to the effect, "so what, it sounds better the way I say it."
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- Deutsch
@mozzyrelly
In my language region and also in Finnish, when I hear the syllable syn, I don't actually think of sin, but of the Greek syn, which means together, with.
In German, we have a lot of foreign words that begin with syn and which are much more often used as the word sin. Since they are often technical terms, I suspect that some of them may also have been taken over from Finnish. Synopsis comes to mind, for example.
The band Kingston Wall is an interesting clue, I haven't heard of them yet. What just electrified me instantly is their connection to the Finnish mystic Ior Bok, who was very active in the field of etymology with his 'Bock saga'.
In my language region and also in Finnish, when I hear the syllable syn, I don't actually think of sin, but of the Greek syn, which means together, with.
In German, we have a lot of foreign words that begin with syn and which are much more often used as the word sin. Since they are often technical terms, I suspect that some of them may also have been taken over from Finnish. Synopsis comes to mind, for example.
The band Kingston Wall is an interesting clue, I haven't heard of them yet. What just electrified me instantly is their connection to the Finnish mystic Ior Bok, who was very active in the field of etymology with his 'Bock saga'.
- Englisch (UK)
- Finnisch
@ElGrande8 To call Bock's field etymology... I'd say he used it like a painter would a canvas. Kingston Wall's last album "Tri-Logy" was inspired by his work. Take care of your mental health looking into that stuff. It didn't end well for the band's leader.
Finnish has a bunch of sin/syn words. Sinfonia, sympatia, synergia, synteesi, etc.
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- Deutsch
@mozzyrelly
Yes I agree it is a bit creepy. The protagonists seem to have had bad karma galore. Petri Walli jumped to his death from the tower of Töölö Church in central Helsinki on 28 June 1995.
And Ior was attacked and stabbed several times by Bock in his house in Helsinki on 3 June 1999.
Then on 23 October 2010, Bock was finally stabbed to death in his flat in Helsinki.
Two Indians were arrested, the younger one was released. The older one was acquitted on grounds of insanity and deported to India in 2011.
Such an accumulation of strange deaths is, as far as I know, rather unusual around prog rock bands. One would expect it more in Norwegian death metal bands.
Yes I agree it is a bit creepy. The protagonists seem to have had bad karma galore. Petri Walli jumped to his death from the tower of Töölö Church in central Helsinki on 28 June 1995.
And Ior was attacked and stabbed several times by Bock in his house in Helsinki on 3 June 1999.
Then on 23 October 2010, Bock was finally stabbed to death in his flat in Helsinki.
Two Indians were arrested, the younger one was released. The older one was acquitted on grounds of insanity and deported to India in 2011.
Such an accumulation of strange deaths is, as far as I know, rather unusual around prog rock bands. One would expect it more in Norwegian death metal bands.
- Englisch (UK)
- Finnisch
@ElGrande8 The other two people in the band had nothing to do with Walli's obsession with Bock, but it was Walli's band, his songs, his record label. There's a book by Viljami Puustinen called "Kingston Wall - Petri Wallin saaga" which is one of the best music biographies I've read. Beyond the music it's a brilliant description of a troubled mind.
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